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2 December 2022
It has come to Coffea Circulor's attention that forum members of Turkish "Kahveler.net" use abusive, disrespectful and indifferent wordings about Coffea Circulor's staff, values and operations. In effect, Coffea Circulor immediately withdraws its offer to the Turkish forum members of "Kahveler.net". This page will stay active in respect to raising awareness of fraudulent people with their corrupted words and actions.
You reached out to us, we did not.
Coffea Circulor was asked to create an offer containing a package of suggested coffees that would be sent in one package to be shared by 2 persons. The package contents is visible below. In short, the offer was a "discounted" value offer of 125 EUR while the package value including shipping is 176+ EUR (depending on destination where additional costs are added such as non-metropolitan delivery location). The value 125 corresponds to a 30% "discount". Coffea Circulor is by no means stating that this offer is optimal, yet we believe that it is reasonable and what we can manage to do at the moment, given 1 person receives his/hers coffees in the offer for 62.5 EUR including express/premium shipping. It also correlates with the ongoing offer for "KahveKylubu.net" which has accepted the offer. (Shipping assumes 1 box is received by 2 persons live close to each other deeming the offer to be lucrative due to DHL Express' fast turnover time.)
Coffea Circulor has never by any means forced anybody to buy or support any of our products or services, ever. "Kahveler.net" actually approached Coffea Circulor which responded in an inclusive and welcoming manner.
Fortunately, Coffea Circulor now understands how "Kahveler.net" is managed. Led by Levent, who requested Coffea Circulor create an offer for his forum members, is the "founder" and an obvious moderator of his own forum. He has the ultimate responsibility for expressed words and actions on his own platform. As a sign of proof, attached pictures clearly illustrate how Levent allows abusive and aggressive language to be articulated towards Coffea Circulor for no valid reason.
As the offer stated to take shape, it materialized in such a visual way that it was published online instead of sending emails front and back. Due to the nature of the 2 existing forums in Turkey as outlined in the offer, where the offer can shared mutually for the sake of optimizing workflow and efficiency, our online system can only make pages visible when officially published. However, before it was 100% finalized, it was already considered "bullshit" - terminology used by Levent's forum members.
It only takes one to destroy for many. Examples:
Anger and disappointment is projected towards Coffea Circulor because forum members jump into conclusions believing "no discount is provided". As 30% discount is provenly provided, it shows that forum members have not taken the time to view the contents of the offer. This is easily illustrated by time codes of various posts where forum members later "understood" the offer, still criticizing it for "poor value and being bullshit". In Coffea Circulor's book, 30% is a generous amount and considering more coffees will be added during dispatch as a token of appreciation for free.
Coffea Circulor has also understood that forum members expected a kind of "negotiation" process. Don't think for a second to "threat" by saying that "...this forum has X amount of members and we have buying power, give us Y amount of discount or else...". Again, if 30% is not a "reasonable deal" - aimed with a well meant ambition - forum members show lack of respect towards Coffea Circulor and indirectly towards collaborating producers and the coffee value chain.
Forum members don't seem to understand that shipping goods actually need financial resources. Because "shipping something" is actually not a "physical entity" - namely something that one can "hold in hands" - shipping is thought upon as "free" and unnecessary cost. Options for picking up the offer/package is available: Come and pick up your package yourself if you think sending almost 2kg gross weight from Sweden to Turkey that costs 32 EUR with PostNord or 40+ EUR with DHL Express. (For the record, these prices are based on our 2020/2021 price list with DHL Express. The prices have changed significantly in 2021 and 2022 meaning we actually subsidize shipping costs. DHL Express announced prices will additionally be raised on 1 January 2023.)
Additionally, forum members don't understand the basic principle of shipping and focus on efficiency (comparing PostNord approx. 32 EUR versus DHL Express approx. 40+ EUR based on 2kg gross weight) in one of the most busy time of the year. To have an order/package reach its destination efficiently in December, Coffea Circulor suggested to ship with DHL Express where Coffea Circulor has excellent travel statistics: Sweden-Turkey, door-to-door, as fast as 16 hours including customs handling. PostNord in December in the high season for packages to travel can unfortunately last longer. Also know that for example as in this case shipping approximately 1.5kg coffee is the net weight while the gross weight is closer to 2.0kg. Yes, weight of packaging, "empty bags", labels, even tape on the shipping box and the shipping label has a weight which increases the weight to a total close to 2.0kg. Coffea Circulor has to pay for 2.0kg - not 1.5kg. Each 0.5kg increment adds approximately 8 EUR on the shipping cost excluding 17% fuel charge, "emergency fee / Covid", "peak time delivery", possible non-metropolitan area delivery, and many more costs that are not visible for you as a customer. Considering these added costs, your package will be closer to 185 EUR of "real value", possibly more, depending on your actual destination without considering the extra added free coffees.
There are talks about "bundle packages" on the forum, possibly based on previous offers from others, making forum members expect certain bargains and better yet them setting the premises of the offer. One can suggest but ultimately Coffea Circulor has the final say in what is possible and what is not. Forum members were offered a collection of coffees including a premium shipping service valued at 176+ EUR for 125 EUR. Moreover, other shipping options were added underway such as PostNord for 115 EUR and also a pickup option for 85 EUR. In other words, if you don't want to pay for shipping, you can come here and pick up your items. We will also offer you a tour and at least one cup of coffee. That is the least we can do. However, do not think for a second that shipping is something that is free in the world. Whether you receive "free shipping" as an offer, Coffea Circulor receives an invoice whether it is DHL Express, PostNord, etc. Does Coffea Circulor receive "free shipping"? No. Does Coffea Circulor receive any discounts on coffee (the raw material/green beans)? No.
Ultimately, forum members can reverse engineer costs by investigating trade price for each coffee which is clearly visible for each coffee on both the coffee bag label and online. Coffea Circulor is proud to have been the first in world to have done this and others in the industry have followed. There is a valid and genuine reason for why the price is clearly visible there - namely for you to reverse engineer the translation of costs in the coffee value chain. Of course, it does not show other costs involved such as workshop cost/rent, electricity, gas/energy for roasting, maintenance, various packaging material, labels, even "small obvious things" like a printed shipping label. At this point, we have not even mentioned the word "workforce" - the actual time it takes to achieve certain things when working. Fortunately, we have been doing this for many years and can lean back on experience and efficiency, meaning that we are able to provide a better and uninterrupted service if our mind and spirit is clear by not having to deal with ignorance. Again, remember, you came to us, we did not come to you.
A deeper analysis shows forum members were expecting "quality coffees to highly discounted rates", meaning that when Coffea Circulor produces the items and makes them ready for shipment, that they would generate a financial deficit. As an example, for the 1st anniversary of Kahve Kulubu, Ivica Cvetanovski illustrated this with a comprehensive breakdown of the cost of each phase during its workload ranging from production, packin, shipping, a breakdown on a cent-to-cent and Euro-to-Euro basis. This is showcased on KahveKulubu.net and found here (post number #285).
People don't understand that making ready an offer requires time and energy. As an example, although attempting to be efficient with preparing this offer together with Levent, several long emails were exchanged. Emails don't write themselves. Does Coffea Circulor send an invoice to the other party when writing an email for the time it requires? No. You seem to be strongly convinced that "time is free".
Coffea Circulor understands Turkey's difficulties with its depreciating Lira currency. As a token of showing respect in troubled times, Coffea Circulor offered a 30% discount as illustrated in the offered items including shipping. After production and execution, Coffea Circulor has approximately a 5% "profit" (after applying shipping costs) to re-invest in its operations. This is assuming that Coffea Circulor does not have to re-ship a potential box that has failed to be delivered correctly if so happens. This means there is no room for any failures in the chain of events that can generate deficits on a sent per-package basis.
Entitlement and opportunism: Disrespecting us is disrespecting others
Disrespecting Coffea Circulor's work is a serious breach of inclusion, transparency and respect. This also immediately translates directly to our own work as a coffee producer and also to our friends and partners in the coffee value chain as for example producers, logistics, etc.
Coffea Circulor was built on pillars of inclusion, transparency and respect towards people. These words have a meaning and are anchored in Coffea Circulor's documented achievements. This, long before words such as "transparency" lost their value in a trendy and washed out expression particularly in the coffee society.
If the offering is "not enough" or "expectations not met", we recommend to seek out another partner. Again, you came to us, we did not. You are not forced to buy anything.
Today, humans live in a dangerous modern society where words and actions can hurt people and organizations in devastating ways. At the same time, it is disrupting morale, ethics and trust in legitimate sources. We believe the entire situation could had been avoided with patience and trust. Coffea Circulor is was not born to either fool or trick anybody. Once a forum member expresses disappointment and using abusive words, other forum members can follow especially without checking real facts by going to the source, i.e. Coffea Circulor's web. This is a great disconnect and shows lack of patience and absence of knowledge.
After all, a forum is never better than its members. Likely, more will know about how forum members mock not just Coffea Circulor, but other industry partners as well. Then you can count how many - with sound ethics and "not sell coffee to just sell coffee for profit" - would like to collaborate with you.
As it is commonly expressed, humans show their true colors in various ways. Empathy is absent. We strongly believe morale and ethics are not to be found in some people. "People" who have expressed their frustration, called Coffea Circulor staff by hideous names, you know who you are and so do we.
Images from disrespectful forum members are found below.
The original offering and its content is visible below.
- 29 November 2022:
On request, we have added additional shipping options:
Pickup (0 EUR):
Don't want to pay for shipping? You are welcome to collect your items in Sweden.
PostNord (Approximately 31+ EUR):
remember that postal services experience more delays due to December/holiday season. There is an obvious reason to selecting
DHL Express (Approximately 40+ EUR)
Will ensure your package to travels safe and to be with you within 24 hours by being able to trace each DHL-node it passes. A typical travel path for DHL Express towards Turkey is Gothenburg-Copenhagen-Leipzig-Istanbul-...
- 28 November 2022:
Real shipping price based on each respective company's tiers for a package from Sweden to Turkey, typical Ankara-region.
PostNord: Max 2kg - 31 EUR excl. local VAT of 25% = 38 EUR
DHL Express: 1.5kg-2.0kg tier - 37 EUR + 17% fuel consumption + 5 EUR emergency (Covid) + local VAT of 25%. If you live outside a metropolitan area, DHL Express adds additional costs, almost doubling the cost.
A package with weight just below 2kg is close to 40 EUR regardless shipping company.
Levent Öncü has asked us to select coffees on behalf of the members of Kahveler.net based on origin, fermentation and price levels.
(Questions and updates are provided below once any questions or alike reach us, for example shipping which is clarified below.)
Levent has a new "coffee forum" in Turkey, based on the same concept as existing "Kahve Kulubu". We started working on an offer with the appearance that it would be the same forum such as the previous 1st year celebration. Levent did not convey there now existed 2 forums, yet we continued to work on presenting an offer. Once it came to our knowledge 2 forums existed, we presented to make an offer to either forum, therefore Levent can see it as "his offer" which he likes.
Given each forum accommodates the same people - meaning each person has likely an account for both forums - the original idea was to provide the same coffees for both coffee forums to primarily streamline production and workload.
Initially, Levent selected a few coffees, likely under the guidance of his forum members. We responded that some coffees were likely to go out of stock soon. However, to our knowledge, Levent has not tried any Coffea Circulor coffees recently except for the Savage Coffees that we roast for Jamison's own brand and dedicated packaging. Levent did not return to us about any specific coffees while we were waiting for him to do so. He relied on us providing these details - if so we can go on for a very long time - until this selection would had been "approved". We therefore offered to make the same package for Levent as for Kahve Kulubu. (The selection made by Kahve Kulubu is based on members approving and have tried most of the coffees in the offering therefore "securing a certain quality, reliance and value".)
We have also been asked to provide "unreleased" coffees. To some extent, we have these in the offering, but to make ready new coffees require analysis, making packaging (mainly label with sensory experience) ready, text and images on the web, etc. To do all this in the required time frame is not possible. We therefore prioritized to present this offer in a reasonable good time before the December holiday season.
(For those who are interested in "unreleased coffees", we kindly recommend to look at "Coffea Circulor Countdown"-offer found here.)
THE SET INCLUDES
- 2x Panama Altieri Yuyi Natural NX 250g (2x 15 EUR)
- 2x Ethiopia Ch'ire Ameli Washed WX 250g (2x 16 EUR)
- 2x Coffea Circulor Kenya Ordo Ruiru 11 AA WDX 100g (2x 13 EUR)
- 2x Yemen Waya Carbonic Maceration CMX 100g (2x 12 EUR)
- 2x Panama Nuguo /25 Natural NX 20g (2x 12.5 EUR)
- 1x DHL Express shipping (value 39-44+ EUR depending on location, based on max 2kg gross weight).
- Total value of the offer is at least 176+ EUR.
- Opens 29 November and continues until 5 December 2022 with possible prolonged ending.
- 4 December: Starting continuous production as confirmed orders arrive.
- 5 December: Packing, shipping and delivery continuously.
- Days in the arrangement are subject to change due to level of workload since we don't know how many members will place orders.
- If you prefer 1x Filter and 1x Espresso, kindly let us know in the notification box during the checkout procedure.
- Espresso-orders will be dispatched among the last shipments.
- Kindly note that regardless Filter or Espresso, Nuguo /25 will be provided as filter only.
This arrangement is only available for members of Kahveler.net.
Made by their respective countries
Finished in Scandinavia